Earlier today, another good friend of mine, the tremendously talented and beautiful Erica Sagn, PhD, posted a link to the previous post on the Soto Zen board. The reactions to this were … Well, see for yourself:
x-buddhist 5 I read the authors post. I don’t know if it’s Zen, or Buddhist, but it is sarcastic and negative. I’ve come across similar trolls on other social media platforms, who seem to delight on playing devils advocate on every issue, just for the schadenfreude. I suppose their existence is as much a part of Buddhism as anything else is, but I’m not terribly interested in such intellectual masturbation. I vow to be one with all things (anyway).
Erica Sagn The author of the blog post would like you to know that the conversation can continue over at his place when this thread is deleted.
x-buddhist 5 Referring to any forums moderators as repressive political apparatchiks is juvenile. Your blog post author is more than welcome to take his hungry ghost party wherever he likes. Zen is like any other institution comprised of flawed humans. Expecting perfection in all things is delusion.
x-buddhist 3 Keep in mind that Erica and Matthias [Eng] are soldiers in Mr Tuttles (sic) army of sewage…and beware of the traps they will try to set for unwary travelers…..
Matthias Eng I am no ones soldier
x-buddhist 3 You follow Tuttle (sic) and support him … Or … You are Tuttle.
x-buddhist 6 it is only the Truth within ourselves that we can ultimately know and perceive. or at least…so it appears to me…
Matthias Eng I don’t follow anyone either, but I will support those who point out the truth …
This is not a battle – its rather an invitation to think …
… I know thats got a bad rep in zen.
x-buddhist 6 In a Witch-hunt… we should only be hunting ourselves…
Erica Sagn Having seen some of the deleted threads, I now believe that x-buddhist 3 is Tutte.
x-buddhist 3 Sorry to disappoint…trying to reverse who’s the troll will only work with very ignorant people and the Admins here know the nature of what is going on..thus the other deletions…If you play nice they may let you stay.and if you don’t I will be here to remind them of All the trolls trying to disrupt the nature of the room North…chose wisely…
x-buddhist 3 If you read the link at the opening post..it condemns this group and its admins…that in and of itself is call for complete deletion of this troll and possibly two others….
x-buddhist 5 I only recently joined this group. I can’t say I’m impressed by the level of discourse. This demeans the spirit and the institution of Soto Zen. What would your teacher think? What would Suzuki Roshi or Kobun Chino think? What would Dogen think?
x-buddhist 6 when someone insults me…i bow and say thank you…
x-buddhist 3 Then help us get rid of these two and maintain the quality that this site has had for quite some time….if you see something that you feel is wrong Jim..please report it to an Admin…Usually it is quiet and peaceful around here with some well experienced members…:)
x-buddhist 3 … I am just pointing out Trolls and warning others before shit hits the fan again…
x-buddhist 7 The F’d up thing about it is apparently many of us didn’t see any reason for the banning and did not see him as a troll, so in consequence, we see people like yourself and your comments as trolls and trolling his thread; and I find it offensive. It was clearly a matter of opinion and perception as to the verdict on Tuttes, and as Buddhist, we should have treated it as such. People that reacted, and posted negative things about a person as though it is concrete fact so its OK to troll and name call because “its so”; those names you called him, and attributes you ascribed to him, is that so?. .Watching yourself and others becoming very opinionated, angry, and extreme to say the least, was all very upsetting at a “Buddhist forum” Not all of us who think it was not OK to ban him were necessarily in support of what he was doing, but could accept it. Some people might of even blocked his posts. But administration took sides with the people who cast aside the path in favor of a lynching. You and the others who share a similar opinion, and disposition as you, were not even mindful of the fact that you had completely given yourself over to your opinion, allowed it to incite anger (in some), and then gave yourselves to the anger by rationalizing it and calling the causes of it real, then took action on some one else calling him bitter an resentful (as though there is such a thing as self and other), and banned him; what is most disgusting is that the administrators chose the side of the people who were not displaying the qualities of a buddhist, but of an angry mob caught in wordly delusion, and this is Buddhist forum! Any of you could have blocked his threads, I’ve done it before, it’s easy.
x-buddhist 3 Did you read the link posted at the top of this thread or are you just one more of his conscripts…looking for disruption, division, anger and deterioration in the room…is that what you seek Number 7????
x-buddhist 7 Number 3, you were told that pointing out the troll and saying things like dont feed the troll and posting that pic was trolling by admin, you said “are you admin?” they said yes, and you apologised. Im not making things up, and yes it is true that my first and lasting impression of you is that you are kinda a troll for the most part. Your activity in this thread has fortified that impression. Im surprised you get away with this kind of disruption given the trigger finger on the mods in this group. Im surprised you dont get banned.
x-buddhist 3 Stuart…are you related to Erica?
Erica Sagn Yes, Number 3, we are all avatars of Tutteji Dai Osho. Isnt’t that obvious?! We’re also trying to gaslight you out of this thread.
x-buddhist 3 Most likely..let’s let the admins decide how to go..I trust them…how about you?
x-buddhist 3 I know..others don’t…at least now you are admitting it for others to see…thank you and god night..
x-buddhist 8 (admin) Apologies if the comment thread is looking a bit disjointed, folks. I’ve tried to cut out the bickering.
Things which I will tend to remove: abuse, troll speculation, admin enlistment, public calls for this or that user to be banned… (take it up with us on PM), basically anything that makes it personal
(Editor’s note: At this Point x-buddhist 9 decided to start his own thread on the same forum)
x-buddhist 9 “If you feel a sense of social responsibility, first of all keep working on yourself. Being peaceful yourself is the first step if you want to live in a peaceful universe. Have you ever noticed how many angry people there are at peace rallies? Social action arouses righteousness. Righteousness ultimately starves you to death. If you want to be free more than you want to be right, you have to let go of righteousness, of being right.” ~ Ram Dass
I posted this as a result of the donnybrook going on here the last while. I’ve come to agree that the trolls are not the problem. It’s my self righteous reaction that is the problem. I can’t change them, but change from within is possible. I’m still saddened by these beings who feel the need to spread negativity, who seem actually to revel in it. But they exist and I will have compassion for them, will pray for their enlightenment as well. But I will not allow myself to be baited into any more dialog with them. Doing so will only help prolong their suffering and mine. Gassho.
x-buddhist 9 … I don’t suggest sitting by. And I DO desire to improve the negative conditions. I know I’m new to this group but right now it’s all I have in the way of a sangha. I’ve enjoyed interacting with other Buddhists for the first time in my life. But in real life, were someone like T[utte] W[achtmeister] and his cohorts to cause disruption, the last thing I’d try is reasoning with them. They’ve got fixed mind and are impervious to any logic that disagrees with theirs. I know who I am and what I stand for and it needs no defense. No, in the physical realm, if they caused enough disruption they’d be asked to leave. If they refused it would be appropriate to call the authorities to have them removed. Yet in a forum like this, most see nothing amiss with engaging them. I made that mistake before and luckily came to my senses. This isn’t a contest to see who’s more adept at an ideological debate. This is about practicing the middle way. It pains me to give these parasites any power, either by arguing with them or by leaving the group, as many have done. So my actions will be confined to reporting egregious posts to admin and trusting their judgement. I don’t think any of us want to see this page become one that routinely shuts down all differing views. But when they cause harm, as these have, I support their removal. I believe that everything we take in affects our spirit, including the sounds and images we choose to absorb. As I try to explain to friends all the time, I cannot erase negativity in the world but I can sure as hell decide to not participate in it.
Erica Sagn Number 9, I don’t get this … Who caused harm? When? How?
x-buddhist 9 Now see, why did Erica’s comment disappear? It was fine sitting there being let go by the true members of this group. Letting go doesn’t mean suppressing. Letting go means having the perspective to see what is relevant and what is not.